4Js
1625
I’ve bought regular pateks and their value has plummeted.
Mar 31, 2018,12:45 PM
Example 5100g. Very limited. No buyers.
5107p. Very limited. Value only fair.
Etc
I did not jump on the 5070 and 5970 bandwagons. I could not qualify for a new one and used they are untouchable now.
Comments:
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Laurent Ferrier - my concerns
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-11:36
FOR DISCUSSION I am concerned about Laurent Ferrier. Here is why. FIRST, they do not make any movements in house. The minute repeater they released at Basel has the same movement as an old Girrard Perragaux - that’s because it’s made at Fabrique du Temps ...
Fair enough
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-11:52
I have edited to be more gentlemanly.
I agree with …
By: Cpt Scarlet : April 1st, 2018-05:47
The point that we must treat people and subjects with respect or the forum that we all love will descend into a race to the lowest common denominator.
I've recently discovered the production is outsourced
By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : March 30th, 2018-11:55
Actually there would be nothing wrong, if all the independents reported it clearly. Because there only few who have CNC machineries and do all the "dirty job". Finishing is just the icing on the top, that's why my esteem for Mr. Ferrier has definitely dim...
Good points both
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-15:10
I have consolidated my independent collection into Romain Gauthier and De Bethune - who truly produce in house watches. I also have an MB&F, because they are totally honest about who makes what.
MB&F total honesty?
By: gerald.d : April 3rd, 2018-01:52
Hmm. Here is a quote from page one of the press release for the LM101 Frost... "While award-winning independent watchmaker Kari Voutilainen took responsibility for the movement’s fine finishing and fidelity to the horological past, its architecture and co...
Great point
By: Incandenza : April 3rd, 2018-13:22
I agree that the press release you have quoted is potentially misleading. It should have been much clearer, and consumers should demand proper transparency from all watch companies - even (and especially) the independents we know and love. In short, the f...
Indeed.
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-15:10
And that’s what I’ve done.
Too true.
By: Mr.Gatsby : April 9th, 2018-22:03
Market decides where to price them.
To be fair
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-15:02
That is a beautiful watch - with the best case and best movement they have produced. They need to preserve brand equity to ensure that loyal customers (like you and me!) stay loyal. Best wishes
Don’t worry!
By: Harry2 : April 3rd, 2018-20:56
I love that watch!
I think most of this is actually known...
By: Euroasianstar : March 30th, 2018-12:34
...I think the first three letters of the movements actually start with the initials of the founders of their third party movement manufacturer. Devil’s advocate might state that Ferrier is a great marketing exercise propagated by HODINKEE and the likes. ...
Great analysis
By: Incandenza : March 30th, 2018-15:14
You said it more eloquently than me. None of this is really “new”, but it’s adding up to a problem. Also, the production is MUCH higher than most people think. The ADs have only a fraction of the overall production
I normally don’t get involved in these discussions
By: 4Js : March 30th, 2018-17:52
The parts are outsourced. So what. The designs are in-house. They are assembled in house. They are finished in house. They make about 150 watches a year. If you like the watch, then that is all that matters. The grey market is selling at the same price as...
I’ve bought regular pateks and their value has plummeted.
By: 4Js : March 31st, 2018-12:45
Example 5100g. Very limited. No buyers. 5107p. Very limited. Value only fair. Etc I did not jump on the 5070 and 5970 bandwagons. I could not qualify for a new one and used they are untouchable now.
Love it!
By: Bounce781 : March 30th, 2018-21:36
It’s an awesome piece.
:-P [nt]
By: beerstyle : March 31st, 2018-07:19
It’s a great watch
By: Incandenza : March 31st, 2018-12:15
My views should not be taken too seriously!
yes, its a good watch for sure
By: beerstyle : March 31st, 2018-18:38
but I feel all companies/business are prone to exaggeration (aka marketing). some things may not be factual, but end of the day, which businessman is honest? Even Facebook, with all its ethics and integrity, is not honest. For me, I just feel that as long...
That's so true Winston
By: benlee338 : April 1st, 2018-06:42
If LF is being dishonest, wait until one deal with AP! I am so pissed off with them now, but that's another long story for another time.
+1 [nt]
By: Horologically_minded : April 2nd, 2018-02:50
😂👍🏻
By: Watchonthewrists : April 2nd, 2018-11:25
+1
The only difference is...
By: Euroasianstar : April 1st, 2018-09:29
...that Aston Martin and Mercedes are very transparent about it and made press releases to that effect. The AMG engine is actually an upgrade to the Ford derived engines made in Cologne back in the day. In the car industry best of the best components are ...
LF’s lack of transparency
By: Incandenza : April 2nd, 2018-00:46
I’m afraid that LF is indeed “taking an ebauche and dressing it up”. Here is a photo of the movement from their new minute repeater compared to the movement of a Girrard Perregaux. It’s clearly the same movement/ebauche (look at the overall architecture),...
Hmm...I see what you are saying.
By: Saturninus : April 2nd, 2018-23:21
It would be important to understand the ongoing relationship between Fabrique du Temps and LF. The story of their collaboration to produce the launch caliber for LF is well-known and not hidden by any means. I presume this minute repeater caliber is the p...
One by one
By: gerald.d : April 3rd, 2018-01:34
1.They don't appear to claim to. With specific reference to the minute repeater, here is the key quote from their own press release - "Laurent Ferrier chose a very classically designed movement" It doesn't say designed, it doesn't say built. It says the m...
Hi Gerald
By: Incandenza : April 3rd, 2018-13:27
First of all, you are one of the best watch photographers I have ever seen. Your photos of the LF micro-rotor movement are downright stunning. And the Patek 5370p photos are even better. Second, I think you probably can comment on my third point above. Bu...
This is just weird
By: gerald.d : April 3rd, 2018-14:04
“Second, I think you probably can comment on my third point above” No I can’t. I have literally, empirically, zero knowledge on the matter. Your insinuation that I do so is defamatory. You are going to hide behind an anonymous Internet forum handle and ac...
Thanks for your comment
By: Incandenza : April 3rd, 2018-14:19
A little aggressive, but that’s OK! Do these pictures assist? I am told by people “in the know” that there are several more examples, but these should do for now. These are basically the same movement, but with different bridges. The LF has some extra dec...
Here are all the CLARIFICATIONS needed :
By: k2luxury : April 3rd, 2018-02:23
During Baselworld this year, we had a conversation with the CEO and Mr Ferrier and the story is the following : One year before the creation of the company “Laurent Ferrier SA”, his son Christian Ferrier was working at “La Fabrique du Temps” (way before L...
Thank you
By: Saturninus : April 3rd, 2018-09:19
I was going to guess that it had something to do with the fact that Christian Ferrier had been working at Fabrique du Temps. If Christian Ferrier had been part of the brain trust working on that movement and took the designs with him, IMHO that is reasona...
+1 [nt]
By: Velociphile - No longer in the building : April 3rd, 2018-09:29
I was not discussing intellectual ownership in the legal sense.
By: Saturninus : April 3rd, 2018-12:06
As far as I know, nobody is suing anyone for using the movement. I was discussing whether or not C. Ferrier was part of the driving force behind the creation of that movement. It seems like he was. From my perspective, that means LF's use of that of movem...
I assume you are doing the same type of work in Switzerland?
By: chosenhandle : April 9th, 2018-05:26
I have a pretty good idea how US copyright law affects our software development. I have no idea how IP is handled in Switzerland. As others have stated, I doubt he was referring walking out the door with tangible IP, but rather the knowledge of how he cam...
Many thanks to the Khan brothers
By: Incandenza : April 3rd, 2018-13:17
For this helpful analysis and clarification. As you know, I have always been (and remain) a fan and supporter of LF and all independents. The GP minute repeater movement debuted in 2010, and was completed by no later than 2009. I do not doubt that Christi...
The brown dial
By: Incandenza : April 9th, 2018-14:25
Is simply awesome. I certainly was not criticising the micro-rotor pieces in Galet Square or Galet Classic cases, which are stunning and distinctive.
Hi mate :-)
By: Mr.Gatsby : April 9th, 2018-21:54
Actually I found your posts both insightful, forthcoming and real. Nothing wrong about putting your view out. I just had to share a photo or two to diffuse the tension — no other intention my end! This is a place where we share our thoughts and passion fo...
Why? They are beautiful!!
By: Arie - Mr Orange : April 9th, 2018-14:47
The steel square blue dialed version is my target. Nevertheless there is nothing wrong with some clarification regarding the content of a watch. Especially not at Watchprosite.
Hehe...
By: Mr.Gatsby : April 9th, 2018-21:49
Was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment. Of course, nothing wrong with the micro rotor versions. I love them
Centigraphe F
By: gengar : April 20th, 2018-02:26
The Centigraphe F is a "boutique piece" only in that it is made-to-order, so it can only be bought via an official boutique - no different than say, the Sonnerie Souveraine. There has been no deception from F.P. Journe on this; when F.P. Journe makes a li...
ya
By: gengar : April 20th, 2018-16:30
That was my point. No limited serial number means not a limited edition.
Quick incomplete response
By: Mostel : April 14th, 2018-19:52
LF is a company not a man. Of course they will do what’s necessary to turn a profit and they may do it in a way that feels like the values and practices of 29 years ago as opposed to 1 year ago... I’ve view this brand as very very nice... not Holy SH”t ot...