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AndrewD
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The PuristSPro Peter Speake-Marin interview

Peter Speake-Marin

October 8, 2010, Melbourne, Australia.  

I was fortunate enough to spend several hours with Peter and his watches during a one-day visit to Melbourne as part of his world tour showcasing the SM2 movement and the new Thalassa.

I am not the first person to say this, but Peter is a really great guy; someone who puts you immediately at ease. Of course it helps that we can connect over watches, but in a very short period of time we felt like old friends, chatting about family, life, work pressures, food and travel experiences. Peter is the sort of guy you would look forward to having a beer with after work. That's the highest praise an Aussie can give!

But of course the conversation rapidly turned to horology. Many of the questions that I had prepared quickly flew out the window as the conversation flowed. I must thank Peter for being as open and thoughtful in his responses as he was. He gave me a great insight into what in means to be an independent watchmaker and I hope you enjoy reading this and get a feel for Peter the individual as well as Peter the watchmaker.

Peter wearing the Marin 1, Mark 1: “I spent more time designing the dial on the Marin 1 than anything else I have worked on. I designed it with a client and we went back and forth on the details until we arrived at what you see now; it was an extraordinary process.”

The Thalassa

 

[Peter started off by handing me the new Thalassa and describing the watch in hushed tones. It is obviously a creation he has poured his heart and soul into. Note: the Thalassa is essentially the Marin 2, but Peter found it easier to use a name to avoid confusion.]

“Of all the watches I have done, the Thalassa is my most coherent because it’s all there revealed; it’s so open. Each watch I make is a spokesperson for what I do. I can use it to explain the form, the functions, and the movement. I have developed every element of this watch from the movement through to the dial and the case; I designed every number in the calendar. The jewel for the barrel is very large – I had the space and when I was making the jewel for it I thought: let’s make it a feature. You can remove the escapement without dismantling the entire watch.

 

The Thalassa is my second manual wind after the tourbillon I did for Harry Winston. The hands are more flamboyant, the movement is its own entity, and the case is really an example of design following function. The Thalassa is not purely a mechanical timepiece, it’s actually a piece of Art.

 

The case is made from white gold, the chapter ring and second hand from hardened steel. It is circular grained and angled on a lathe and then blued, as are the hands. The indices are filled with superluminova. There are two layers of sapphire to the dial. The seconds hand is above the first sapphire but flush with the chapter ring.

 

Because all the screws are made for the SM2 movement, I took an English idea where I made each screw flush with the surface. It creates a thing of beauty. After the screws are finished by machine, they are polished by hand.

 

I did blued screws for one client on the automatic, but because they are so large I felt they overpowered the movement.”

 

[I said to Peter that if it was my watch I would like to have blued screws in the movement. After turning the Thalassa over in his hand Peter agreed that blued screws on the manual wind might give a balance to the blued chapter ring on the front. “I could do that for you” he said. Independent watchmakers are dangerous people to know!]

 

“The Thalassa is 30 pieces in gold, and half are already sold. The response has been wonderful on this trip.”

PuristSPro (PPro): You have been quoted as saying that the SM2 is a “watchmaker’s movement”. What does that mean to you?

Peter Speake-Marin (PSM): I am a watchmaker designing watches, not a designer making watches. The functional aspects influence every part of the watch. Everything that I learned as a watchmaker and wanted in a watch is designed into this piece. From the influence of the topping tool, to the practicality of the case, the attention to detail and the facility to be able to adjust the escapement very finely.

 

PPro: Was there an SM1 movement, or did I miss something?!

 

The FW 2012, which was the hybrid ETA [based on the ETA 2824], is for me the first Speake-Marin movement.

PPro: Many collectors have a strong preference for in-house manufacturing. What are the benefits to you?

Credibility. Something that is pure in relation to the company. It is not a movement personalised by a company that exists in 500 other brands. Because of the Internet people are so much better informed today. They want a product that is genuine, that is authentic.

Your Journe is beautiful [pointing to the Octa RdM on my wrist], but its’ case is from the 1930’s, and then Journe does an amazing job with the dial and the movement. Dufour’s case harks back to the classical Calatrava style. These watches are representations of who these men are as watchmakers, respecting their traditions.

Each one of us makes watches that are representative of who we are. We each do this in different ways. What I do is to make each aspect of the watch in my own style. Although influenced by classical watchmaking, my case is contemporary; you can’t confuse it with anything else. This approach extends from the case all the way to the movement. The winding crown comes from French clock making (it’s called the Louis XV), but that is the only thing I have taken from classical watchmaking.

PPro: Is there something you want Speake-Marin watches to be known for?

Original in design, original in execution. In the Thalassa every component is made for that watch. My pieces are intrinsically pure all the way from case to movement. It is a complete entity.

PPro: A Speake-Marin watch has a very distinctive appearance. Do you feel at all constrained by the design language you have created?

Not at all. The styling is just a base to build upon. Ideas come easily. What is complicated is taking the ideas and turning them into reality, keeping it consistent, and making the whole machine work.

PPro: Can you tell us about your characteristic rotor and seconds ‘hand’ design?

This is based on the watchmakers topping tool which is used to change the profile of the teeth. I used it to create the first pocket watch. I used it as the inspiration for the rotor on the automatic and the seconds display on the Thalassa. This has become a signature in my watches. It is beautiful and gives the watch a very strong individuality.

That rotor costs more than a 22K gold rotor because of the work involved. For an experienced watchmaker it takes 3 hours to do the finishing and angling on each section. The mirror finishing of the surface is done by machine.

PPro: Do you consider that what you create is “art”?

I think its mechanical art. Art is what brings flavour to life. You could use a clock on a phone, but watchmaking is functional mechanical art.

[We started to talk about watches versus art and as soon as Greubel Forsey was mentioned, Peter made these comments:]

Greubel Forsey is the reference for complications; there is no one better. Patek? Forget about them – they are brilliantly done but mass produced in comparison. For a company to focus on just one complication, Greubel Forsey do it superbly. I think there is something in what they do that is inspiring and I am trying to put the same kind of energy into my pieces.

PPro: In the past you have had a number of dial options available. Is this bespoke service something that you promote? Do collectors demand uniqueness?

No, it was a weakness I had in myself because I hate repetition, I love doing new things. That’s what drives me, but I can’t necessarily run a business with this approach!

In the past I have done so much diversity and it becomes too difficult to communicate what I am trying to achieve.

PPro: Have you had any unusual requests or things that are impossible to do?

What people don’t realise is that to make a single dial, you need to do as much work in design and tooling as if you were going to make a thousand dials. It can cost up to CHF10,000 for one dial to do it to my satisfaction.

PPro: Is it really necessary for a movement to be big and thick to be a reliable "tractor" movement?  What are the features of a movement that really make a difference in this domain?

The reason the movement is this size is that if you have meat, you have muscle. This gives it the ability to last generations. I applied what I learned in restoration to produce a watch that will last throughout time.

Let me give this example - early Cartier made superlative high quality timepieces – in fact that’s the reason I used German silver for the SM2. But if you have a wafer thin piece of German silver with a bearing in it, once the lubrication has dried up it will wear. While you can keep things thin with modern manufacturing, where I come from I want more strength.

You don’t have to have a big movement to make it reliable, but it’s like a muscle car – the meat gives it strength.  My movements are heavily overenginerred.

PPro: Do you feel pressure to develop new watches? Or does this feed the creative juices?

Making new things is in my nature; to develop and grow. Every year there is an expectation for something new. But this coincides with me as an individual.

I value everything I have done, every watch I have produced, but it feels like all that has led up to these three watches you see in front of you. I plan to get as much out of every day I have left and to milk all the ideas that I have.

PPro: Compared with a lot of companies you don’t make a big point of chronometry, but clearly the SM2 is designed with chronometry in mind?

The fundamental reason to build a timepiece is to tell the time. It’s like writing “Tourbillon” above the tourbillon or “Watch” [laughing] on the dial, in case someone hadn’t worked that out! I don’t have to write “Chronometer” in order for people to see that it is important to me.

PPro: Do you have a preference for automatic versus manual wind watches?

I like automatics personally, but from the collectors point of view you get to see everything with the manual. I love the practical nature of the automatic, but aesthetically you can see right inside the calibre. I kept the topping tool motif for the second hand, so I don’t miss it (the automatic rotor) in the Thalassa.

PPro: How does your Atelier function from day-to day? What is your involvement?

I am involved in every step and particularly in the prototyping. It’s the best way to get a feeling for what needs to be tweaked. The 1 in 20 series took an enormous amount of time but I learned a lot and it made the subsequent watches much more reliable, easier and quicker to produce.

I do all the preparation and finishing of the dials myself, to know how far I can go. That becomes the base for what someone else in the Atelier will do.

Next year I want to go back to where I came from, to the bench, to put these pieces together. That is who I am as a watchmaker. Because these are my designs, this is the closet I can feel to being in control and achieving a state of Zen. I feel sane again!

What makes me happy as an individual is taking a fundamental idea and taking it all the way through to a completed watch. The watch grows into a complete entity and that is what I find satisfying. I would explode if I was stuck in a pigeon hole doing the same things.

I have done so much in my career, and have so much diversity in my collection. I have a desire to learn and grow; as soon as I stop learning I move on to something else. I do have a hunger to have the time to sit at a bench with other like-minded people and assemble these pieces.

I do the basic designs, then work with a constructor to work out the details such as the tension in the mainspring and the profiles of the teeth. It’s like a game of tennis. We take designs back and forth to achieve a watch that is innately my style, but does all that it should.

This is why most companies take an existing proven train and add a complication that gives you a USP (unique selling point). I have taken a difficult route because I don’t have a gimmick inside it. In the future I will have more unusual complications so it will be easier to sell the watch. But with the SM2 it almost requires an education. One of my life goals is to spend more time educating people about quality and the differences between a mass produced product and what I can make.

PPro: How many watchmakers are working in your atelier? Do they specialise in certain aspects or does one watchmaker build a watch from beginning to end?

At the moment I have two watchmakers putting these pieces together and each one works on a watch from start to finish. The assembly is complex and there are more parts than a tourbillon. The German silver is untreated and you need to be incredibly careful handling it.

PPro: Being a small independent company, is servicing an issue, and how do you approach this aspect of after-sales care?

Any competent person can work on my watches. They take a long time to put together, but it’s not rocket science.

When to service? There is nothing in this watch that will wear out. When the lubricants dry up then service it, but if it is working and not broken [from misadventure] just use it. Vintage pieces often show wear in the manual winding mechanism but in this watch I reinforced that area so it will not wear out.

Slowly, as my business and collection grows, I plan to train up a watchmaker in each market to be able to work on my watches.

PPro: If it’s not a proprietary secret, can I ask how many watches you make each year?

We will have made approximately 100 pieces in 2010. In 2011 I expect to produce between 100 and 150 pieces. We are six people today, but it would be great to grow the business, and have more resources and people to bring my ideas to fruition.

PPro: Is it important to you to support and maintain classical watchmaking techniques? 

I don’t look particularly at what has come before, I just aspire to create watches to the best of my ability. My watches are influenced by traditional watchmaking but I am not trying to be classical. I might use laser cutting but only because it is the right tool for that particular job. It is the result, not the tools or materials themselves that matter to me. I don’t use these in marketing as some companies might.

PPro: You have collaborated with other watchmakers and companies. Do you enjoy this process and what do you get out of it?

I spent eight years doing collaborations because I got a kick out of it and it was something I hadn’t done before. I wouldn’t do this again because there is nothing more to be learnt. I want to do something new and challenging now.

PPro: How did the world economic recession impact on you? Does the limited nature of production mean that you are somewhat protected?

It impacted enormously, and to varying degrees it hit everyone. A lot of the people I deal with are retailers. Our watches continued to sell, but the retailers did not re-order because they did not have cash flow. I am still owed money, not just for products, but for services rendered. But now things are turning around. People are going back to buying real, genuine articles. But all these things go in cycles because human nature doesn’t change!

PPro: Many Swiss watch companies are very long-lived. Do you think about the future of your company?

Stylistically my watches are so strong that if I wasn’t here tomorrow someone could continue those designs. I don’t aspire to this, but people who make identifiable watches lay the ground work. I don’t aim to be a corporate identity, but I want my watches to be successful on their own merits.

PPro: You are travelling to Vietnam tomorrow and have been very successful there. Are there other markets that you would like to break into?

You have to distribute watches through people who are passionate about watchmaking. As my collection grows and the knowledge in the market place increases my watches will find their place.

PPro: Can you give us any clues as to what you might be working on currently?

 

I have the next five years of developments already advanced. Both simple and complicated pieces. I take existing ideas and reinvent them. The Marin 3 is a complication, it has ideas that have existed over the last 200 years, but have never been executed in the way I plan for this watch. It will look incredible. Proportionally similar to the Thalassa and very three-dimensional.

 

I want each Marin watch to be different. One watch will reinforce another. They will be different pieces; they will appeal to different people in different ways. The series will allow me to reinvent watchmaking in new ways. I am not into gimmicks, particularly for the sake of marketing; I like watches to be innovative and genuine.

 

Once the Thalassa series of 30 watches is finished I will move on to the Marin 3, 4 and 5. Marin 3 and 5 are complications. They will all likely remain limited series.

 

PPro: Would you consider making a sports watch?

 

There is something coming later. The Marin 1 is almost a casual watch, a watch for pleasure. The Thalassa is more formal, a watch for business.

 

PPro: What is your opinion of the on-line watch communities and PuristS in particular? Have they influenced your company or independents in general?

 

It is through the internet watch sites and other social media that independent watchmakers such as myself can communicate with collectors. We are more accessible than the big companies. It is difficult for people to talk to Mr Rolex, or Mr Stern for that matter, about their watches. It is particularly powerful for me to be able to show people why I do what I do.

 

PuristS is one of the most influential of all the forums. There are others that are larger, but the quality of discussion on Purists is fantastic. I would really like to have the time to interact on PuristS more.

L to R: Marin 1, Mark 1; my PuristSPro ABR; Marin 1, Mark 2; my F.P.Journe Octa RdM; The Thalassa

This message has been edited by AndrewD on 2010-10-18 19:53:16

More posts: calatravaDufourGreubel ForseySpeake-Marin

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